22T 4 | Marital Roles

 

Much of how we understand the roles of man and woman in society and culture can be drawn from the Christian context of the creation story in Genesis. In her quest to get a clearer understanding of what that text was saying about the original divine design for man and woman, Linda Sutton goes back to its Hebraic roots as well the cultural context based on the Jewish culture at that time. In that research, she stumbled upon Kisha Gallagher‘s body of work. Kisha is a Hebraic Roots scholar, a former co-host of the Hebrew Nation Radio Morning Show, and a new programmer for ReviveTV, which is a Hebraic Roots Network. Kisha joins Linda in today’s episode as they take a deep dive into a primer of terms in Genesis that relate to man and woman, what their original roles were, and the original idea and vision for their relationship. You don’t want to miss this discussion as this can be a blueprint for your own vision for relationships.

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Back To The Beginning: Understanding The Hebraic Roots Of The Roles Of Man And Woman With Kisha Gallagher

I am excited to bring to you this extraordinarily special guest here. I made mention that I was going to be bringing her on in a previous episode when we were talking about the roles of men and women. I understood that some of the roles of men and women might be triggering, especially for some of our ladies. I promised that I was going to bring this special guest to help us bring clarity, understanding and context. I was in search of a deeper understanding of man and woman, male and female through the lens of the creation story. I know that in this is worse than worldview in context that we draw a lot from the Genesis creation story, the creation of man and woman, Adam and Eve.

That has set a lot of the context, not only from a religious standpoint, but from a cultural standpoint of how we understand the roles of man and woman in society and culture. We draw a lot from that Christian context of the creation story in Genesis. I was on a quest to get a clearer understanding of what that text was saying about the original idea and divine design for man and woman, male and female in that creation story. I wanted to make sure that I got an understanding of it, not through the English translation, but I wanted to go back to Hebraic roots and get an understanding of what those words meant when they were written. I wanted to get back to the Hebraic roots of the words man and woman, male and female, Adam and Eve, and what that original context was.

Not only the original meaning, but the cultural context based on the Hebraic or Jewish culture at that time so that I could have a clear understanding of what was the original idea, what was the original design and dynamic. In that research, I stumbled upon Mrs. Kisha Gallagher’s body of work. Her work is so masterful. Mrs. Kisha Gallagher is a Hebraic Roots scholar. She is the author of the BEKY Book, The Biblical New Moon: A Guide for Celebrating. She is also the lead author of the website, Grace in Torah, a ministry that’s devoted to the Gospel of Yeshua, Moedim, marital roles, as well as general Bible study.

She is a former co-host of the Hebrew Nation Radio Morning Show. She is a new programmer for ReviveTV, which is a Hebraic Roots Network. It is exciting to have her here and she’s going to take us on a deep dive, intense and dense primer of the terms in Genesis that relate to man and woman, male and female, and what their original roles were, what their original design was, what the original idea and vision for their relationship is as a blueprint for our own vision for relationships here on the show. Let’s dive right in. Let’s get a chance to sit down and check with Mrs. Gallagher.

Welcome to the show, Mrs. Kisha Gallagher.

Thank you for having me, Linda. I’m excited to be here.

I’m excited to have you here. In several years of this show, there have been two types of show guests that I’ve wanted to have and two topics that I wanted to cover. I’ve been listening and hearing within on who that is supposed to be. You represent the show that I’ve been wanting to have for several years. I wanted to let you know, one of the most exciting things about your work is in a previous episode of the show. I was talking about the roles of the leader and the follower, the man and the woman, and how oftentimes, at least in our Western worldview, which is where we’re focusing on now. The way that people see the roles, responsibilities and understanding of leader and follower is from the Western worldview of man and woman, leader and follower. That usually is drawing from Christianity.

Because of the role of Genesis and how Genesis lays out the man and the woman, the creation story, and the relationship between the two, that often informs and colors the way that people perceive, understand and characterize the relationship between man and woman. You see that in how people often understand those roles in Tango. Tango is about man and woman, leader and follower. What I realized is that I wanted to have a deeper understanding of what that text meant, but not from reading the Bible, but what was the original Hebraic understanding. What did those terms mean? Not just what did those terms mean, but what did they mean in the original context and culture of the time?

On that search, I stumbled upon your work and your wonderful, extraordinary blog, GraceInTorah.net. You’ve got to check out that work. It’s masterful in the way that she goes through that. I stumbled upon your series, The Biblical Roles of Women, which is a multi-blog post series, where you break down Genesis. You go through Genesis and you help people understand. I was like, “I’ve got to talk to her and I’ve got to have her in the show to walk us through that so that we could have that.” As I to explore your work and all of the references that you made, I realized that we have a complete misunderstanding of what those words mean, what the context are, and what the relationship was in what I call the original idea and the original divine design of man and woman, male and female, and the relationship between the two. That’s why I wanted to have you here.

Before we get started, though, I want to make sure that we’re all on the same page. Everyone in my audience may not know the difference between Judaism and Christianity. They may understand them as two different faiths or two different practices. May not know that there’s a relationship between the two, and then also many people may not even have heard of the Torah or if they have heard of it, they don’t understand what it is, what’s its relationship to the Bible, and how it relates to any of our faith or any of our understanding. If you could please help us with those two pieces before we get started, that would be wonderful.

First with the difference between Christianity and Judaism, we often think of them as completely separate religions and now they rather are. That wasn’t the case in the 1st Century, that wasn’t the case in the time that Jesus walked the Earth and he had his first followers. You had those that came from the nations that joined with them. They were a sect of Judaism expecting the Messiah. You had those early followers following the Messiah, the Christ, and they were called Christians because they did so. It was all a sect of Judaism. All of their main tenets of faith all came from Judaism, which all came from what we call the Old Testament.

In that Old Testament, you have the Law of Moses, but in Hebrew, it’s not law, it’s Torah. Torah doesn’t mean law like we think of law. The law sometimes has bad connotations to it. We feel like we’re being fenced in or oppressed, but it means instructions. That’s the first five books of the Bible, the Books of Moses or the Law of Moses. You will hear people sometimes broaden that term to encompass the whole Old Testament or the whole Bible with the New Testament included. Sometimes you got to listen to context to determine what’s being referenced, but in its simplest sense, it’s those first five books, the instructions.

22T 4 | Marital Roles

The Biblical New Moon: A Beginner’s Guide for Celebrating

I want to make sure I got that correctly. Christ was referred to as the King of the Jews. It was the grandfather, the granddaddy of Christianity, the precursor, the ancestor, even though they both co-exist now. It was what existed before Christianity did. The Torah, when it’s referred to in terms of as a text, it is referring to specifically the first five books of the Bible. Why is it important for those five books to be distinctive? You said in terms of it because it’s the Law of Moses or the Books of Moses, but is there any other reason why those five books are referred to as the instructions or set apart? It’s interesting that you use the word instructions to describe them. Can you explain that a little bit more to us?

The Bible itself defines those first five books as the Torah. If we were going to translate it perfectly into English, it would be instructions, not law. Because it contains law, it’s been associated with law or Moses or the Books of Moses. It calls itself the instruction. Therefore, that’s where the name originates from. I like to think of it this way. The word of God was told in parables like the Parable of the Sower, for example, is likened to a seed. The Torah is all the instructions, the words of God in seed form. You see it grow out from there and the prophets, the writings and even the new covenant, the New Testament. It has instruction for all that growth.

With Genesis and with the first five books, that makes sense because what a seed does is it has all of the information in it. What it does is it draws everything that it needs in nature to manifest those instructions in the world. Even though you see all the instructions that are needed to make it a tree or a fruit bearing plant or whatever is there. Once that seed is planted, it draws everything it needs to become visible and manifest in the earth.

It says in Hebrew, speaking of Yeshua saying, “In the volume of the scroll, it is written of Me.” He’s referring back to the Torah. There are tons of prophecies in the Torah, but because we see so many narratives and stories, and then outright laws that page after page, you can get overwhelmed with that. If you think of it broader and think this is prophecy, I can see Messiah in every single portion of those five books. He is there. Sometimes it’s like a seed form. If I had an apple seed, it’s hard to see the apple when I’m looking at the seed, but He is there if you keep digging. For me, anyway because I’ve studied the original language a lot, that’s where I see it. English puts a veil over it a lot of times where we can’t see. That’s what we’re going to talk about when it comes to man and woman is to peel back that seed and look and see what’s there.

There was one other text I want to refer to because it’s something that I went to in order to underscore some of your work and do some cross-referencing. I know that you refer to it. I want to bring it to their attention so they can see it as a resource. That’s the Strong’s Concordance. Can you explain to us what the Strong’s Concordance is and what it’s often used for, so we have that as a context?

This is something you wouldn’t even have to buy. There are tons of Bible programs like BlueLetterBible.org that you can even Google. You can Google that with your phone. You can find Strong’s numbers. What Strong’s did is he put numbers associated with each Hebrew word, but he also did that with Greek. You could do that in the New Testament, but if it’s Hebrew, it has an H and then numbers. If it’s Greek, it has a G and then it has numbers. What’s awesome about technology is you are one click away. You can click on that word and it will open up and show you the Hebrew term. It will give you a definition as well, but there are some better Hebrew definitions like Brown-Driver-Briggs. All of those are free on most little Bible programs that you can Google. You can find these things out for yourself. If you want to get into it and you want to get more in depth in the language, you can go to something like Guinness’ Hebrew or something like that. With Strong’s Concordance, you can do a lot.

To clarify for them, it’s now in electronic form, but it’s a resource that allows you to go to every word that might be in the English version of the Bible. Click on it and find out what the root or the original Hebrew word is for that. Sometimes even the roots words and what those mean. Even sometimes the correct context for each and every word.

Sometimes it’ll give you a reference to another number and that’s getting you down to the roots. Sometimes you get a rabbit trail a little bit. I find it fun. That’s what I do for fun. Anyone can do this because you don’t have to be able to read the language necessarily. It’s better if you want to start learning. Some things we still miss because we don’t know the tongue. Even if you don’t know a lick of Hebrew, you can do this just by reading English. It’ll all be written out in English for you.

I wanted to let them know that because you might make reference to that, I wanted to have the context of the resource. I’m going to let you go through it because in Genesis there’s a process that God goes through in creating the heavens, the earth, the sky, the sea, the earth and the animals. In that, there is male and female, and then this reference to man and woman. I’m going to let you teach.

We think of that creation week as being a fun story for kids. It seems fantastical, but the more I learn the language and I get into the study, the more I understand that everything that we need to know is in those first chapters of Genesis. It doesn’t mean origins. In Hebrew that is Bereshit, which means, “In the beginning.” We know that the prophets tell us, “The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end.” We start seeing this cycle. That’s what we see going on outside our windows. There’s a constant cycle or change of seasons. We see this every day with the sun going down and coming back up, all these little natural things. They’re like living parables. We live it every day.

In Western thought, it goes back to that Greek. We think of time as a line and it’s linear. There might be a crawl somewhere here and then it keeps on going this way. In Hebraic though, everything is a cycle. It’s cyclical. It’s in motion. It’s associated with movement because we are associated with movement. We’re not stagnant and neither is the spirit of God. If you go back to tribes, I don’t care if you’re looking at Native American tribes, you’re looking at African tribes. Israel was tribal. All of those tribes still to this day exist. They think of time as a cycle. Where are they getting that? It’s from the beginning, which I find beautiful. Although it does mean that there’s constant change, it also means that there’s some strong, stable points that we can always link to.

It gives us this creation in seven days. In the middle of that, in Genesis 1:28 is where we see the creation of male and female, the reference to that.

Everything is a cycle. We're not stagnant and neither is the spirit of God. Click To Tweet

Let’s back up a couple of verses and go to Genesis 1:26, where God says, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Right there, we know they have a purpose. It is to rule over the creation. As you mentioned, in verse 28, He creates them male and female. We can read over that and don’t think much about it, but what does male and female mean in Hebrew, in the original language?

The word for male is zakar. It does mean the male gender and that can be in reference to humans or it can be a reference to animals. It’s root word, which is the exact same letters, zakar, means to remember. It means to recall, to remind, to call to your mind. Think about what that implies. If you are remembering or recalling something, that means it is something that you are already aware of. You’re already familiar with it. This is something that is intrinsically linked to being male. When you start reading these posts, to be male is to remember God, to remember what He says. He spoke to Adam and gave him a specific commandment in the beginning. Men are linked to what is written. You could even associate them with the past. Something that is stable firm, it’s there. You can think of them as foundational, and men are foundations. Women are builders. That’s the essence of a zakar, a male.

What is a female? In Hebrew, that one is neqebah. First, it means to pierce. It means a hole. I know what you’re thinking. I’m a sexual object once again. In Hebrew, everything goes back to a verbal root. In English, we are very thing based. Everything is noun based for us. We have so many nouns and dictionaries. With Hebrew, it’s not like that. It’s an action-oriented language. It goes back to a verbal root. It’s also very concerned about function. What is implied by a hole, because another term, another definition means to designate. I want you to think about a ring and the little prongs, the little setting that holds the little diamond or stone in place. That is related to the neqebah in Hebrew. You can see even in a hole now, when you think about it. If it was in a hole, you would be surrounded on all sides just like that setting, what is surrounding that stone. What is it doing? It’s holding it in place.

It’s like a container containing whatever is inside of it?

Yes. Women do that. We do that in the natural, even giving birth. What are you? You’ve got a container that’s protecting a new life so that it can grow, mature, and be birthed. We’re very much related to this neqebah.

I’ve heard you speak before in either your blog, or in some of your other interviews, or podcasts, or lectures of neqebah as a boundary setter. Is that in that term where you see boundaries or is it in another?

You see it there and it just builds. It doesn’t matter what form of the feminine you’re looking at, whether it’s the ezer kenegdo, which we are going to talk about or the woman of valor, which is the Eshet Hayil. If you’re looking at the ishah, that’s woman in Hebrew. All of those are like containers. They surround and they protect. Women do this. It’s easiest for us to understand as a mother. What are you doing? You are like that mother bird with your little feathers, trying to gather and protect. We do that.

Keep them in the boundaries and contain them so that they can be safe.

We do that with other women. We do this in social groups. We do this with men because in our essence, we are all about promoting and protecting a relationship. All of those are related to that. It can go askew. We know we can become controlling. There’s a dark side of that. In a healthy environment, you’re doing that so that life can grow and then go out and flourish. That’s what it’s about.

We have the zakar, which is the male, who’s responsible for remembering the word of God. He’s foundational in nature. He sets the space, the groundwork for things. The only reason I keep saying in my mind groundwork is because I keep thinking of Adamah, which is the groundwork. I don’t want to misstate anything. Neqebah means hole, but also in the context of, it’s verbal understanding is a container or something that holds something or sets boundaries. The experience of a woman is as controlling, you understand that her nature is to have boundaries or set boundaries, or they choose to have boundaries and set boundaries. If you’re outside of them, she’s going to be attempting to get you back inside of them.

We want to learn how to do it in a healthy way.

We started there. The shift from male and female and at least in my understanding, referring to them as male and female to reframe them as man and then later woman. We talk about the understanding of man and woman in that term. One of the most significant things for me is when He’s like, “It’s not good for man to be alone. I will make him a suitable helper.” That was what started this whole journey for me because I was like, “Help me.” What does that mean in Hebrew? What was the original when He was like, “It’s not good for him to be alone, this is what I have in mind?” That’s what started me in this journey. I want to start there because I know there’s man and then there’s this help me, and then woman in the text as a sequence. Give us those three definitions, the context, and what we need to understand about them.

22T 4 | Marital Roles

Marital Roles: Torah doesn’t mean law like we think of law. It means instructions.

 

If you follow my series, I don’t explain the ish, which is the man, and the ishah, which is the woman until much later in the series. As a matter of fact, that might even be the last one I did in the series. It doesn’t matter. You could jump to that if you wanted to. It would be completely fine. I’m going to tell you a little bit about what those are because it is quite fascinating. When He said, “She shall be called woman, ishah, because she was taken from man, ish. She’s bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.” You can see how they are meant to be of the same substance. We are the same substance. We’re different.

You could even say that His whole idea was that a man to leave his father and mother and be joined by his wife and they be one flesh. When you’re thinking about your spouse, it’s like you’re two, but you’re one, but you’re two, yet you are one. Probably you have some neat insight on that with dance. I can’t even imagine. If they will work in their proper roles together, you can’t tell them apart. The flow is so in sync that there’s not a power struggle. You don’t worry. You’re not concerned about who’s leading and following. It’s beautiful to watch, and fun to participate in.

Ish and ishah are the man and woman, which makes sense because even the word sound and look the same.

They sound alike. They share two Hebrew letters. They share an Aleph, which is the first letter comparable to our A and then they share a Shin. It looks like a W, but it’s like the “sh” sound. Aleph and Shin spelled the word fire, “aysh.” A man and a woman, each of them, ish and ishah, has the word fire in their name. At your core, there’s a part of your essence that’s related to fire. That shouldn’t surprise us because God describes himself as a consuming fire, a refiner’s fire, and we’re made in his image.

There’s something very fiery about you. What indicates where our strengths are in that is the difference. With the man, he has the letter yod and this is tiny little dot. It almost looks like an apostrophe or something in English. It is a picture of a man’s fist. A man is a fire with a hand. He’s like a hand on fire and he’s got to do something with that hand. Men often are like that. My husband works a lot of hours. Yet when he’s off work, that little hand on fire has got to find something to do. I’m like, “Chill.” No, that little hands on fire. He’s going to do something or he needs a tool to put in that hand, whatever it is.

A woman, what she has that the man doesn’t have, she doesn’t have that yod, but she has a hay. The letter hay is like our H. It’s like a breath. Women’s fire is associated at a bit with this mouth right here that we have. We like to use it. We all know what the dark side of that looks like when she’s not using it right. She might be nagging, yelling, complaining. The words that women give when they are coming from a right place, they comfort, they nurture, they edify, they encourage, they build up. We have a gift for that. They say women have a gift for gab. That’s what our gift of gab was given for. It wasn’t to gab. It’s truly to do all those things I said. That’s the essence of the ish and the ishah.

Let’s talk a little bit about what Adam means. Maybe we should do that before we talk about the ezer kenegdo because Adam, his name is a proper noun, in reference to who we would call Adam. In the beginning, you can even see this referenced in Genesis 5:2. It was both of them together. In Genesis 5:2, it says, “He created them male and female,” that’s our zakar and neqebah, “and bless them and call their name, Adam, in the day when they were created.” Men and women are known as Adam. In English, the best way to translate that would probably be mankind.

It would encompass all of us together, but it also is a proper name for Adam. When Adam was created, he came from the ground. This is where you see some neat poetic things pop out of the text when you look at it in Hebrew. Adam came from the Adamah because that’s what the ground is in Hebrew. You can even hear Adam in Adamah. What was his mandate? What did God have him do? He was going to work, serve, till and take care of the thing from which he came from, the ground. Where did Eve or Chavah come from? She came from Adam.

Where it says that Adam was formed from the Adamah, it says that Chavah, Eve was banah. She was built from Adam. You have him being formed. Her being built. Women are very much associated with building. I talked about how the zakar is like a foundation. Who builds on foundations? We’re like the builders. That’s why you see even later in the Book of Ruth that they were blessing her. They wanted her to be able to build the House of Boaz, like Leah and Rachel built Jacob’s house because we build. We build our children. We build by supporting, surrounding and protecting all of that domain that is our husband’s.

I just want to pause because I don’t want to miss that. Even the sequence is important because even though when Adam was taken out of the ground, technically both of them were taken out of the ground. The fact that their source materials is different and related to their purpose, and comes out of their design is significant and warrants stating. The fact that Adam came out of Adamah, which is the ground and his role and responsibility was to till and work in that. Chavah, her source of material was Adam. Her relationship is there. The fact that she was built versus the fact that he was formed, those distinctions start to begin to help us. Him being the foundation, her being the builder, and being okay with the roles and responsibilities, and even the sequence is important. For me, it was like each day he was creating something that set the stage for the next thing.

In other words, those things were required to be in place before the next thing could come. You have the sky, the earth, and the seas, and then you have the animals that are corresponding to that, the seeds of the plants and the earth, and then Adam comes on the scene. He’s working with the animals, but Adam sets the stage for Eve to come. It doesn’t surprise me that Adam represents the foundation, but the foundation has to be set, understood, and in place before Eve who’s the builder can come because there’s no sense to build on something when you don’t have the proper foundation in place. I wanted to make sure I pull that out so that we can step back, look at and evaluate that.

I’m glad you did that because when we do get to the fall, it helps us to understand what transpired there, the consequences to their sin. Why it was attached to the things it was attached to? We won’t give any of that away.

Men are foundations. Women are builders. Click To Tweet

I don’t want to miss anything in terms of where you’re talking about male and female, Adam and Chava. I want to get into the Ezer Kenegdo.

First, I want to touch on one thing back where you were with the man and woman, him working, him doing his service, being the thing from which he came from because women, that is true for us too. We come from Adam. A lot of our work and service is going to be surrounding that man. There’s a right and wrong way to do that, but that’s how things get built when man and woman come together. That’s how new life is created, but it’s also how even if you wanted to go into the secular realm. Companies, they’re built. They’re stronger when they have both male and female because they’re getting both aspects. The building is stronger and firmer. What about her being a helpmate? That’s what the ezer kenegdo is. First, the Lord placed Adam in the garden. He told him, “It’s not good for you to be alone. I’m going to make you a helper suitable,” or in some translations it says, “A helpmate for you.”

He does do that. What though is a helpmate? I always wondered, what is a helpmate? Am I dishwasher? What am I? That word was coined to try to define the ezer kenegdo. In Hebrew, it’s two words, ezer and kenegdo. Ezer is a special word. It does mean helper. In nearly every one of its uses throughout the Old Testament, it’s a reference to God. God being your helper, your rescuer. That is exactly the function. You have names like Eleazer. You can hear the ezer in his name and his name means God is my help. There are tons of terms that are related to this, but often they are in reference to God, how God comes in and helps us.

Let me define kenegdo and this make sense. Kenegdo is a compound preposition in Hebrew. You have key, which means “like her as.” You can see how the woman is liked for a man. We’re corresponding to, but neged means opposing, opposite. It can mean corresponding to. It’s often a reference of two things like coming together like this. They’re opposites or in your face. That preposition is sometimes translated as “in front of” or “in your face.” A woman, sometimes we are right there in their face. That’s how you’re going to do the dance.

The minute I heard that, I was like, “That’s like Tango.” She is opposite him, but she is facing him. She is in front of him. She may be opposing or providing resistance to him depending on the situation. She’s in front of him and she’s facing him. They’re face to face. That’s how it happens. That’s where the magic happens.

That’s what she’s supposed to do. You could break that down and say, “She’s a helper that opposes.” Opposition isn’t always bad. It can be. We don’t want to mirror that. Rashi, who is this old, very famous Jewish commentator in reference to the ezer kenegdo. This is what he said, “She is a helper to the man when he’s walking uprightly. She’s an opposer when he’s not. In other words, she’s opposing him to get him to turn.” If you wanted to think about God being our helper, I know we don’t like to hear this, but this is the truth because He loves us. We do this as parents. If you have children, you understand this.

We are the biggest champion for our children when they’re doing what they’re supposed to do, they’re being successful. We want them to stay successful. When they start veering off to the left or the right, or going on a path that’s probably not going to lead to a good place, what do we do? We stop and we start opposing them. We’re doing that to goad them. We want to goad them back to where we know that they’re going to be safe, healthy, happy and can continue to grow. Since woman does that truly, it’s reciprocal. A man’s going to do that for you too. If he’s a good man, if he sees you doing that, he’s going to try to goad you back too. That is the essence of a helpmate.

That’s important because I know for many people, there was so much resistance. There’s so much inner turmoil because when people see helper or helpmate, it is often characterized as an assistant. The man is in charge and he’s doing his thing. She’s here to assist him, serve him, or support him as opposed to when you understand the zakar, that his role is to keep and remember God’s word, and that’s his primarily primary role. Her role is to ensure that he does that. When he’s doing that, then she is able to support him and be in opposition to him so that they can accomplish what they are set to accomplish.

When he’s not doing that, when he is not keeping the word of God, when he is not in his purpose and operating in his function and design, then she will oppose him and provide resistance against him. That makes sense because in order for them both to work, they have to be in their both respective roles, functions, purposes and responsibilities. If they are to work in concert with one another to have foundation and build, or to create together, or like in Tango, to lead and follow, he has to do his part in order for her to do her part. In order for that synergy to work and for that co-creation to occur, he has to be in place. That makes sense.

I can give you an analogy that we all understand if we go back to seed, like the seed of a man. He has so many seeds. His whole life, he’s producing more and more seeds. You see that as far as relating to the foundation, relating to the word, it’s ongoing for the man. He can be 99 years old and still be producing seed. Women think about the seed that you have, your eggs. They’re finite. We have a finite number of eggs. When we receive seed from a man, your body does this without your knowledge. Out of millions of possibilities, it’s going to pick one and that’s the one. Your body is going to surround it, protect it, and let that thing grow. You can use that as an analogy in real life, even with the relationships, with that hand on fire, that man that’s got something to do, “Let’s pick through this. I’m going to help you surround and protect the thing that’s most viable for us. We’re going to grow this thing together.”

That’s powerful in terms of the acknowledgement of the fact that within her, there’s a discernment of which seed to choose that is beyond her thinking. It is discerning, which is the best seed to combined with the egg. I’ve even seen some scientific literature around that. The egg decides which sperm to allow to connect with it. It’s beautiful that God put that discernment within her very being to know when presented with all of these options, ideas, seed, both literal and figurative coming from the man, which one to proceed with.

That’s critical that you’re bringing that out. I’m trying to lay down the definitions. Acknowledging that it’s not just an intellectual process, it’s a biological process like the body does. You see, it’s already happened naturally without thought so that when you see it come out through the intellect, it’s an outgrowth of what’s already happening within her womb, which is to be the seat of manifesting things for him, and multiplying his things. The things that he gives her and brings to her, she is the seat of manifesting and multiplying it.

22T 4 | Marital Roles

Marital Roles: To be male is to remember God, to remember what He says. To be a female is to promote and protect a relationship.

 

As our gentlemen bring things to their lady, she’s like, “No, not that one. I’m not giving birth to that.” Sometimes they can feel like they’re saying, “No, no,” and then she’s like, “Yes, that’s the one to go with it.” He’s like, “It’s not about you,” but if he can understand that nature, that something within her noes what is the appropriate thing to nourish. He can trust that intuition. It’s more than intuition. We usually think of it as intuition but it’s biological design. I wanted to pull that out to the forefront because that’s huge.

It is huge. You could sit all day and meditate on that.

There was something else that you said that I wanted to bring, which is the term neged as a part of kenegdo meaning equal. You’re underscoring that and the significance of it being a masculine form of that word versus the feminine form of that word. Can you speak to that?

Everything in Hebrew like Spanish is masculine or feminine. There’s not a neuter form like we have in English. English speakers, we start going, “What? That’s feminine or that’s masculine.” That doesn’t have an impact other than it’s grammatical within the language, but it can go either way. If there is a masculine side, there’s also a feminine side to those words. There’s a feminine expression and there’s masculine expressions. You still would have that same definition.

I remember in one of your lectures, you were speaking that one of the scholars was talking about the significance of God choosing a masculine form of that word to underscore the equality of men and women, as opposed to choosing the feminine. Does that ring a bell?

That isn’t. I’m like, “Is it the term with neged on there?” I don’t know. There are so much. There are volumes and volumes in each one of these terms that you can go through.

Going through my review, we’ve talked about zakar. We talked about neqebah, which is male and female. We’ve talked about Adam and Chava, which is Adam and Eve. We’ve talked about ish and ishah, which is man and woman, and the ezer kenegdo, which is the word that God is using to refer to helpmate in the Bible. Therefore, outlining and stating upfront what her function and role is right out of the gate.

He could not have been clearer to call her an ezer kenegdo. This is exactly what the man needs. If we go back and see, when He told Adam that he needed an ezer kenegdo, it was right after, the very next verse after he gave Adam the First Commandment, which was, “Of the trees in the garden, you may freely eat, but at this one tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to eat.” He says, “It’s not good for man to be alone. I’m going to make you a helper suitable for you. I’m going to give you an ezer kenegdo.” You can see the juxtaposition there relating the ezer kenegdo, the need for her in relationship to being obedient.

It has to do with obedience. God gives him a commandment and says, “It’s not good for you to be alone.” Truly we do need each other. We need accountability. If we don’t have accountability, we can get off on who knows what, but we need each other. He said, “It’s not good for you to be alone. I’m going to give you an ezer kenegdo. You two working together that’s where you’re more likely to accomplish obedience.” That’s what it is. She’s going to help you do that. I know that you have a dark side to that.

In all of the women that I know, that I talked to about their relationships, there is something deep in there. She knows a bit about what her man needs to be doing. “If he would just do this,” we have that and she’s wanting it for his benefit. She’s wanting it for his blessing. She’s wanting him to prosper. She wants him to do well. She’s always going to come in in her own little way and try to help him do that. Sometimes we don’t deliver very well. We don’t come across very well. We might come across as nagging, which isn’t good. That’s not who we need to be, but at our core, a wife wants her husband to be prosperous.

That’s what she’s designed to do. She’s designed to have a child. This is what he does. You might not like the way it sounds when she’s in labor, but sometimes you have to be like this is a part of the process. I want to acknowledge that because on a previous podcast and the one on leading and follow, especially what it means to be a leader or what is a leader in Tango, that’s one of the core tenets, which is that the gentleman initiate. He sets an action in motion. The woman is the consequence. The follower is the consequence or she represents the consequence of what he’s done. She’s to provide him feedback. That feedback is to hold him accountable so that he’s aware of what he’s done, what he’s initiated. He can see it and then he can make whatever corrections and adjustments that he needs before he takes the next step.

Her role is to provide him constant feedback every single step of the way. That’s the only way the dance work. The only way that he knows is that what he has spoken or initiated in the couple is working through her feedback. She holds him accountable and responsible for his lead. In Tango, especially the Argentine men say, “Anything that happens is the man’s fault.” They say that because he is responsible for the initiation. Since he’s the responsible for the action, the doing, once he does it, he’s responsible for that action or what he’s done. She is to provide feedback and insight because it’s the impact is shown through her. Whatever he’s manifesting is going to show up like if he leads a step, she’s going to do the step. When he gives her the seed, she’s going to manifest the baby. It gives her the idea she’s going to multiply it. That relationship occurs in the dance.

When men and women aren't afraid to function in their purpose, there's no problem with the flow. Click To Tweet

When you say that she holds him accountable, it shows up natural in this other dynamic as well. We have the sequence. The last thing that I want to do before we talk about the fall is, I found it fascinating her role as a builder to me became more pronounced. I bring this up to people and they sit in and maul in it. I’m going to bring it up to you. Before the creation of Eve as her own entity to help him, Adam had charge over Eden. He was set in the garden to take care and tend for the garden. Once she came on the scene, it appears that the territory was expanded, and they were given charge over all of the earth. That’s how I read it. There seems to be an expansion of his role and his dominion. Am I reading that incorrectly?

You’re not reading it incorrectly. I had not considered that, but it is true. They’re given that mandate in the first chapter of Genesis in the creation week. When you see it broken down in Chapter 2, you’re right. It does start with the garden.

This is your responsibility. When it’s the two of them, their responsibility, their dominion, their rulership has expanded to all of the earth and the term changes from Eden to earth. In my mind, with the coming of Eve, her ability to multiply that’s now present is not only in terms of children, but also in terms of dominion. Her presence now gives him ability to be able to handle more responsibilities and handle greater territories.

We know that’s true. When you get two together, it’s always better than one.

It sets perpetual motion because now, the ability to create lies within Adam and Eve. To me, it’s like setting a system in place that can run for all of eternity. They represent that system. That to me is so powerful. Let’s start with the breakdown because the thing where it breaks down is when the serpent enters the garden. We’re going to do a whole episode on the breakdown that occurred there. There’s a lot of symbolism, information, instruction in terms of how men and women, and the relationship between men and woman breaks down in that story. I want to set it up because the man and the woman are there.

I want you to give us some final parting words, now that we’ve laid out all the terms and the meaning, what’s the original, brings in all full circle for us in terms of we’ve got male and female, man and woman, Adam and Eve. They were created, and then they were giving this charge. What was the original design? What was the original idea that we should have walked away from with Genesis? You said everything that we needed to know. We could have gotten in the first few books, the instructions, the Torah. What instructions should we have walked away from seeing that part of the story?

Remember, that cyclical thinking is to get back. We want to get back to what would be paradise, the Eden idea. What was going on? We can talk about the battle of the sexes and things like that. That’s going on, but we live in the consequence of the fall, which we’ll talk about next time. That doesn’t mean that we can’t strive to get back to that beginning because we are on the other side of the cross. The whole idea is to bring restoration, as a matter of fact, the restoration of all things. That includes the relationships with men and women. It’s going to require us to work because we’re going to have to battle our little inward nature, that nature that wants to war against that.

Let’s go back to the beginning before the fall. First, there wasn’t a power struggle between Adam and Eve. Neither one of them had dominion over the other. What they had dominion over was the creation and creating themselves because they would be little creators. They’re going to birth people. They’re going to reproduce. They’re going to multiply. You didn’t see a power struggle. You saw them functioning in their proper roles. It would be like the dance. When everything is going the way, it’s supposed to go and it is flowing, they are two, yet they are one.

They are echad in Hebrew, one. Their movements would move and flow together beautifully. You wouldn’t have them bumping into one another or stepping on each other’s toes. You wouldn’t have any of those things. I’ll tell you the main reason why is because fear was not present yet. When we aren’t afraid to function in our purpose and we aren’t afraid of when they are functioning in their purpose, there’s no problem with the flow. Everything flows perfectly, but fear is the culprit behind all of it. Maybe we’ll figure out why.

There’s an old African proverb that says, “If you do not know the purpose of a thing, you will abuse it.” It reminds me of what you said in terms of understanding when we can get back to the original purpose, the original idea, the original divine design of who we are as individuals, as well as how this unit is supposed to work together. We can journey back to Eden and get back to that paradise, and that happily ever after that people are talking about. That’s not fantastical. That’s where we all started in this life.

We long to get back to that ideal. I know that was intense for everybody because we had to get into it, but I wanted us at the top of the series to us get the 411, the real truth. Get down to the beginning and get down to the roots. As the elders would say, “We got to get down to the roots to understand the fruits.” Thank you so much for spending so much time with us sharing your wisdom and your insights. Mrs. Gallagher, you are a wealth of information and wisdom. We appreciate you sharing that with us.

Thank you, Linda.

22T 4 | Marital Roles

Marital Roles: Just like in tango where there’s a lead and a follow, men and women are to work in concert with one another to build or to create.

 

We’re not done with you because you going to be a staple where we need to keep going back. It’s like, “Teacher, can you tell us what this mean right here?” I want to talk about the fall and then perhaps I can convince you to come back and maybe talk with us another day about submission. Thank you so much. We have been featuring Mrs. Kisha Gallagher here on the show. Thank you for your time.

That was so dense and intense, but I got so much. I hope you’ve got so much out of that primer and walkthrough. I love the way Mrs. Gallagher walked us through verse by verse, chapter by chapter, and understanding of the words, their meaning, and their original context from multiple perspective, and multiple resources. That was extraordinary. What was so beautiful for me was that we’ve gotten a chance to see an unfoldment of the meanings through the words as the text evolves. The fact that she lets so much cultural context, as well as a real understanding of the Hebraic roots of the words, it completely characterizes our understanding of male, female, man, woman, Adam and Eve, helpmate and a suitable helper, ezer kenegdo, and then what was the role and responsibilities of them coming together as a couple and the relationship from the start? I love that because it does serve as a reset for me in terms of us getting back to the original idea, the original design, the original intent of man and woman, and the original vision for relationships.

I think so much of what she did was clear up some of those places that create tension, clarify things so that we can honor and respect the fact that our roles by nature of definition and design are different, but interdependent, opposite and equal. It’s exciting that you see that in the text. This is so wonderful that she set the stage, press the reset button so that we have a clear understanding of those words, and therefore a clearer understanding of what are the respective roles of man and woman in the creation story. What was the original instructions, as she says the Torah, for us in terms of, how to proceed into creating the relationship that God intended? I hope that provides an insight for you as we continue to proceed in this dance of relationships, and this dance of romance on the show. For additional resources for this episode, you can find on www.The22TangoShow.com. As we say on the show, it not only takes two to tango, but it takes you to tango. Ciao.

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About Kisha Gallagher

22T 4 | Marital RolesKisha Gallagher is the author of the BEKY Book: The Biblical New Moon: A Guide for Celebrating, and the website, Grace in Torah, a ministry devoted to the Gospel of Yeshua, the moedim (feasts), marital roles, and general Bible study. Many lives are touched through her website, conference engagements, and weekly small groups.

Kisha is a Creation Gospel trainer and a former cohost on Hebrew Nation Radio’s Morning Show, Renewed. She is a new programmer on ReviveTV (Hebraic Roots Network). Kisha resides near the Smoky Mountains with her husband and sons.